tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post5722689477054147419..comments2024-03-29T14:07:44.746+11:00Comments on ....CARL/CHARLES WEBB WAS NOT THE SOMERTON MAN....: SOMERTON MAN: A TALE OF TWO PHOTOGRAPHS, UPDATED 9/04/18, VIDEOGordon332http://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-17926612054580140532018-04-20T06:39:23.039+10:002018-04-20T06:39:23.039+10:00Interesting that not only were they overwritten on...Interesting that not only were they overwritten once but they were over written one more time after they had been published in the Mail on January 15th 1949. Given that the intent was to hide specific details then it is possible that the first overwrite didn't cover all that was needed.<br /><br />I will make an effort to do some further work this week to see what, if anything, the photos will reveal.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-72379979967609821962018-04-19T19:49:43.330+10:002018-04-19T19:49:43.330+10:00If these three sets of figures are more than just ...If these three sets of figures are more than just 'laundry markings', then what better way of 'hiding' them than having them marked on a pair of trousers, better than tiny rolls of paper hid deep in a fob pocket, who would think they were anything else than what they appear to be? CliveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-87973737176508733192018-04-17T13:59:38.262+10:002018-04-17T13:59:38.262+10:00(Just found B Deveson had previously hihglighted t...(Just found B Deveson had previously hihglighted that already - wlthough he had 29089 rather than 29059) <br />Further to that (but probably neither unexpected nor meaningful):<br />https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/160416010<br /><br />COMMONWEALTH APPLICATIONS.<br />PROCEEDINGS UNDER THE 'PATENTS ACT 1903—1921.'<br />List of Applications for. Letters Patent received from 23rd to 29th April 1930 (inclusive).<br /><br />....<br />Isaacs, M. M. Trousers. Sept. 16. 29,059.<br />....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-2389174183206253292018-04-17T12:43:52.286+10:002018-04-17T12:43:52.286+10:00Thanks Clive
Parial manufacturer label
staStrao...Thanks Clive <br /><br />Parial manufacturer label<br /><br />staStrao "PATENT NO 29059"<br />SUPPORTING TROUSERS<br />AL WAR TIME MODEL<br />(Non-Elastic)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-30483929141577461092018-04-16T13:21:32.426+10:002018-04-16T13:21:32.426+10:00See Page 66/67 in Gerry's book for information...See Page 66/67 in Gerry's book for information on the patent/manufacturer. CliveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-21073986017383914492018-04-09T17:02:23.448+10:002018-04-09T17:02:23.448+10:00I agree, and suspect that the person who overwrote...I agree, and suspect that the person who overwrote the code page may have been the same person that overwrote the laundry marks.<br /><br />It's quite amazing that this is the first additional photograph that we have come up with and there it was hidden in plain site for those years.<br /><br />There are some very interesting implications.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-42266560361462320442018-04-09T16:36:05.590+10:002018-04-09T16:36:05.590+10:00Hi Gordon, The third set of figures, below the bla...Hi Gordon, The third set of figures, below the black line intrigue me. The exaggeration(?) of the first figure '3' and the long horizontal bar on the figure '5' somehow remind me of some of the letters on the Code page, possibly? CliveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-61346728250446181212018-04-09T10:32:08.166+10:002018-04-09T10:32:08.166+10:00Clive, I noticed that 'bobble' on the top ...Clive, I noticed that 'bobble' on the top of the O. I will get some close ups and publish them later this week.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-44758679966395584892018-04-09T10:30:52.932+10:002018-04-09T10:30:52.932+10:00Re the extra writing, yes I agree that the marking...Re the extra writing, yes I agree that the markings to the top right of the new image are actually from the manufacturer. <br /><br />The writing I was referring to is the faded markings that lie behind the laundry marks themselves.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-90837583056342145092018-04-09T07:59:34.687+10:002018-04-09T07:59:34.687+10:00Rer the extra writing, I originally thought it mig...Rer the extra writing, I originally thought it might have been some sort of evidence stamp, but I'm thinking it might be a manufacturers/id mark....<br /><br />If you flip the pic and squint a little it looks something like:<br />Patent (or patient (?))<br />Massive "P" NJ320??<br />TROUSERS<br />?4F MA?KE <br />Set<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-88487617962196149592018-04-08T19:48:16.318+10:002018-04-08T19:48:16.318+10:00The figure '0' on the third set of figures...The figure '0' on the third set of figures (original set of figures)-looks like a 'ring' rather than a '0'? CliveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-64786056833300210892018-04-08T16:32:26.375+10:002018-04-08T16:32:26.375+10:00Fair enough, it would be the last place I'd lo...Fair enough, it would be the last place I'd look.peterboweshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383208822885209896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-53973784516101305832018-04-08T14:51:39.271+10:002018-04-08T14:51:39.271+10:00Hi Pete, Lots of ways that information can be pass...<br />Hi Pete, Lots of ways that information can be passed on, it's concealment and it forms part of 'Clandestine Communication'. I tend to think in terms of Louise De Bettignes who in 1916 walked through a German border post between Holland and France with her petticoat absolutely covered in messages written in secret ink, 'lemon juice as it happens. And this was before she became a spy for the British and French Governments The same lady did a similar walk through wearing 'pinz-nez' spectacles which had a translucent covering containing codes. One of her colleagues, a certain Mr. Paul Bernard, went as far as writing a multi-page report in code on the back of a postage stamp. Yes, that's right micro written code.<br /><br />Have laundry marks been used for clandestine purposes, the answer is yes but you'll have to bear with me whilst I dig it out of my archives.<br /><br />On the subject of laundries/dry cleaners, in Russia, and even America, in the 40s when Dry Cleaners were scarce, one had to remove the buttons from trousers prior to them being accepted, a devil of a job to sew them back on wouldn't you think? Could even run out of thread and have to wait until you reached civilization before being able to purchase a card of the much-needed thread. Wasn't there a scarcity in some countries in the 40s?<br /><br />Back to your original question, how would a laundry mark messages be transferred? The most expedient method would be to remove the trousers and hand them to the intended recipient who could take them, examine them and hand them back. Another thought is that said laundry marked trousers could have been handed into a dry cleaner/launderer who could also be the intended recipient. Realistically I am sure you could think of numerous ways information was delivered and the less complex the method the better.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-26175692030271607422018-04-07T17:08:17.833+10:002018-04-07T17:08:17.833+10:00Gordon, I'm having a hard time with this. If i...Gordon, I'm having a hard time with this. If indeed the laundry marks were the vehicle for writing code, and the code was meant to be read by someone other than the trouser wearer, how do you see the transfer of information taking place?peterboweshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383208822885209896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-8264030883275793722018-04-07T16:38:13.990+10:002018-04-07T16:38:13.990+10:00Anonymous, I think that there is more to be learn...Anonymous, I think that there is more to be learned from the laundry marks and the apparent two different images one of which has been overwritten. Think in terms of why that should be and when you have got to grips with that, consider what it may mean to other aspects of the case.<br /><br />I respectfully and totally disagree with the idea of discontinuing this discussion, we've only just got started. <br /><br />Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-15472432808860300742018-04-07T05:37:45.534+10:002018-04-07T05:37:45.534+10:00Where did you find the second image? Could it poss...Where did you find the second image? Could it possibly be 2 separate items of clothing, both overwritten in the same handwriting? Yhat would account for the slight differencesAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244037828818185103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-42815608237397568312018-04-07T03:15:03.084+10:002018-04-07T03:15:03.084+10:00I think that remains to be seen, I'll spend a ...I think that remains to be seen, I'll spend a little time on the older images, it was 5 years ago and there have been 2 new cameras since then plus improved lighting and techniques.<br /><br />How about you, do you have a view on what it could mean?Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-26490206729656099172018-04-06T23:35:41.883+10:002018-04-06T23:35:41.883+10:00According to 'Hoyle' SM was wearing the St...According to 'Hoyle' SM was wearing the Stamina duds which is consistent with all his other unmarked wearing apparel; not your Elasta Fits which were stashed in the Keane bag containing all the other marked gear. Unless you and Byron have other contrary information, then we should not be even discussing the laundry marks or such unverified accessories, such as oversized fob pockets etc., interesting as they appear to be. Admittedly the money in the side pocket of the Elasto's along with the grass seed and cuff sand seems to favour them, we must stick with your man Gerry's better judgement I guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-22426739273472783802018-04-06T22:33:35.774+10:002018-04-06T22:33:35.774+10:00What did they want to cover that would be otherwis...What did they want to cover that would be otherwise visible and they did not want to be seen?peterboweshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383208822885209896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-87309846444655123432018-04-06T18:03:08.990+10:002018-04-06T18:03:08.990+10:00If I can go back to your original question first, ...If I can go back to your original question first, why would the police, or whoever, write over perfectly legible laundry codes? The answer in my view can only be that they wanted to cover something that would otherwise be visible and they did not want it seen. Bear in mind that this was in January, some months before the discovery of the 'code' page.<br /><br />Back to the question at hand, here's a link to a very early post:<br /><br />http://tamamshud.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/laundry-mark-close-up-focus-for-this.html<br /><br />I have larger images available and will add them to this post over the weekend.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-42625793717443255182018-04-06T17:25:43.007+10:002018-04-06T17:25:43.007+10:00Are you suggesting the laundry marks carry coding?...Are you suggesting the laundry marks carry coding?peterboweshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383208822885209896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-69860472240054446552018-04-06T14:35:33.060+10:002018-04-06T14:35:33.060+10:00
Maybe, just like the code page, they were too leg...<br />Maybe, just like the code page, they were too legible.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-47143495108877955192018-04-06T13:20:34.475+10:002018-04-06T13:20:34.475+10:00Why would the police overwrite the laundry marks w...Why would the police overwrite the laundry marks when they were perfect legible?peterboweshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383208822885209896noreply@blogger.com