tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post1766132072225773324..comments2024-03-29T01:32:42.553+11:00Comments on ....CARL/CHARLES WEBB WAS NOT THE SOMERTON MAN....: SOMERTON MAN: TIBOR KALDOR LAST LETTER, WHO WAS DANETTA? PLUS IMPORTANT UPDATEGordon332http://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-15727112631548677132016-10-02T15:25:21.800+11:002016-10-02T15:25:21.800+11:00The word Danetta has a meaning and it corresponds ...The word Danetta has a meaning and it corresponds well with Kaldor, if Anonymous said that as if it was random and useless. i wouldnt be agree, even if it was random, the meaning wasnt. In this hairy case we should consider anything we found as a posibilities, not just throw them away as we deemed it random and useless. We need to gather data and not to let any single posibilitiy slip away. And it seems this Anonymous did NOT read the post well. So i put my money on Gordon, way to go man. Im looking forward for the next post of this Kaldor, he was in hay internment camp and based on your previous posts SM was in there too. So its high likely Kaldor and SM connected somehow plus with Lawson's diary about mentioning the Disposal of the original body, no formal identification of Kaldor, altered image of SM and inconsistency fron the SM image with the description given by the autopsy officer. This two are connected, best to assume it that way for now. I will hit the comment as i get something new to notice. Arnonrenoarnonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-57913217719197116882016-10-02T10:48:48.562+11:002016-10-02T10:48:48.562+11:00Anonymous, you have now agreed that you have no re...Anonymous, you have now agreed that you have no relevant experience on suicide and I would naturally assume, neither would you have experience with suicide notes. Both of these are at the core of this post and have a bearing on Tibor's passing and yet you seem to want to dismiss it and my request to establish your credentials in this area, when pressed, the result was that you have no such knowledge.<br /><br />Next, you attempt to have the discussion move to the use of language and statistics offering no substantiation, with the basis of that argument resting on the word 'Danetta' having no meaning as a word itself, there are two issues associated with that one of which I will address here and the other is scheduled as part of the next Tibor Kaldor post. 'Danetta' clearly does have a meaning and a very significant meaning at that. Read on.<br /><br />Tibor was Jewish, what you did not understand is the significance and importance of the names given to children within the Jewish faith and the meanings of those names in this case 'Danetta' means 'God is my Judge'. There is a specific naming ceremony in which the child is given a Jewish name and which may be different to the secular name which they had been given at birth though sometimes it may bear a similarity. It is a name that they carry with them through life and it is used at the various Jewish ceremonies they participate in throughout their lives.<br /><br />I did not derive the name from a word, I happen to know two people with the name 'Danetta' and both are Jewish. You should know that my Grandmother on my mother's side was Jewish, I myself was not brought up in the Jewish faith but I have a little understanding of it. I based the post on research and existing knowledge.<br /><br />Further, if you had done your research instead of assuming knowledge you would have found that the use of acrostic codes have a long history in both Jewish and Christian religions.<br /><br />At this point, the entire basis of your comment was proven wrong, it has nothing to with 'adding another step we add potential bias', in reality, and based on researched fact and knowledge, it is quite the opposite.<br /><br /><br />From my perspective I think that you have tried to bluff your way through with words alone and based on little to no knowledge of the subject, what I read in your comments are unsubstantiated words from a person who does not have the confidence to comment in their own name. The term 'florid impotence' comes to mind.<br /><br />In essence, you did not succeed.<br /><br />Final point, at the end of my last comment and in response to your mentioning another who may be 'persona-non-grata' here, I gave the criteria for those commenting on this blog, I listed them all in simple and clear terms:<br /><br />"Anyone can post a comment here, all I ask is that their comments are decent, polite and civil and don't involve personal attacks and abuse"<br /><br />I note that you decided to use just two of the five criteria that suited your particular purpose and it revealed what I believe is the motive behind your comments, to disrupt and distract. I will now add a further criterion to the list and that is that comments from those that puff themselves up and grandstand will not be published here.<br /><br />This discussion is now at an end, mazel tov, you failed the test.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-23998882606683224952016-09-30T20:44:36.946+10:002016-09-30T20:44:36.946+10:00No experience of suicide notes nor the "manag...No experience of suicide notes nor the "management or investigation" of sudden deaths. Though of course, that's not what I was commenting on, so it would seem strange that you'd ask a commenter (on a public blog with comments enabled) to establish their credibility in that very specific domain. It's almost as if you're trying to close down discussion.<br /><br />I note your view that "Danetta" is not a chance outcome of the acrostic. But once again, I'd ask you - and fellow readers of your site - to consider the risks of confirmation bias in the absence of any contextual understanding of the (statistical) likelihood of that outcome.<br /><br />Consider this: you derive the word "Danetta". It sounds like a word (consonants and vowels in the right places), but seems to have no meaning as a word itself. A second step is required to derive the meaning you point to: by looking the name's "meaning". <br /><br />This is the same as deriving, say, the word "Paul" from the acrostic and interpreting it as a reference to a rock. <br /><br />Why would Tibor encode meaning in that way? Does it seem likely? Would it not make the decoding of his intended meaning more difficult and subject to misinterpretation?<br /><br />What I wish to draw attention to - as a critique and not a criticism (there's a gulf between the two that all parties in the SM 'debate' would do well to remember) is that with each step of interpretation we are adding potential bias.<br /><br />I don't understand why you would choose to conflate this with "personal attacks and abuse" you refer to in your response.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-23275135629618300702016-09-29T18:04:52.307+10:002016-09-29T18:04:52.307+10:00Hello,
Credibility on this site is an issue, I spe...Hello,<br />Credibility on this site is an issue, I spend a lot of time sorting the wheat from the chaff and sad though it seems, there are those who, for example, use the anonymous or alter ego tag as a form of 'shield of invincibility'. <br /><br />No, you're not a witness but you would have an expectation that what you will say will be treated as credible and yet you offer nothing to support that. In my humble view, it would be of benefit if you would at least confirm what it is that you believe qualifies you to make pass comment on the nature of this post. If there is a criticism that's fine as long as it is based on relevant and demonstrated knowledge.<br /><br />I can't agree on the platitude issue, it is just used to make a bland statement that because you 'see what you see' then so does everyone else. That plainly is not the case and I simply can't buy your argument that it was intended to encourage further discussion. <br /><br />My view remains the same, the word 'Danetta' I believe is not a random outcome. Tibor was Jewish and the first paragraph produces a Hebrew name from the acrostic exercise which happens to mean 'God is my judge'. In some ways it is akin to the message left by the Tamam Shud slip.<br /><br />Perhaps you can advise of your experience with suicide notes and management or investigation of sudden deaths, that would certainly help, that would be credibility.<br /><br />Anyone can submit a comment here, all I ask is that their comments are decent, polite and civil and don't involve personal attacks and abuse.<br /><br />I really must go, I have a lot to do this week and time is at a premium. Have a great day.<br /><br /><br /><br />Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-39223308437853007612016-09-29T17:01:53.135+10:002016-09-29T17:01:53.135+10:00Anonymous (in so far as it really is) suits me fin...Anonymous (in so far as it really is) suits me fine, thanks. Saves me having to log into yet another network. Credibility not important... I'm not a witness. <br /><br />I happen to know German very well. And to me, the letter does have a whiff of second language 'Umständlichkeit' about it.<br /><br />My platitudes regarding confirmation bias are not intended to close discussion down, but to further it by drawing attention to the same issue you raise in your response... the need to verify, verify, verify.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the only person I can think of who might be able to assist with the maths is probably persona-non-grata around here :-) <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-3266288547157233852016-09-29T08:56:21.583+10:002016-09-29T08:56:21.583+10:00He was back in London at that time, pretty sure he...He was back in London at that time, pretty sure he was in the middle of changing his surname to Adams which was his mother's maiden name, she was a US citizen. As you may have read she was a descendant of John Adams, 2nd US President.<br /><br />There is an, as yet, unexplained gap in GAT's location between 1942 and 1946. Still working on that, there may be a simple explanation but who knows, maybe Misca knows?Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-12608503752084794202016-09-29T07:34:31.727+10:002016-09-29T07:34:31.727+10:00It's a fair statement/question. I don't pr...It's a fair statement/question. I don't pretend to be a maths whiz , so as far as probabilities are concerned it would be best to contact someone who maybe specialises in that area.<br /><br />'People see what they want to see' could be interpreted as a platitude don't you think? A 'cover anything, catch all' statement that is designed to close down any argument regardless of whether it's sound or not. I don't see things as being that simple. I see that it applies to the fastidious cleaner who sees every spec of dust whilst someone less interested in dust won't even see it even if it covers the tops of furniture. <br /><br />When you investigate things, you check and you double check to reduce the likelihood of kidding yourself. Rule 1 is Verify so are rules 2 and 3. If you can't verify it then say so and/or leave room for doubt and questions. This post does that, it questions and it leaves room for doubt. You're questioning and that's fine and if your answer is 'I don't think so' then that's OK as well.<br /><br />I would suggest that you go back and look at the suicide rates in the immediate post war years, far higher than you might think and the likelihood then as now is that there were many more but not reported as such. The 'Dunera Boys' that we discuss on the blog have an astonishingly high rate of suicide, I didn't know who at the time, but I was on duty not 5 miles away from one high profile Dunera boy who took his own life. I am not sure how many suicides you have been to and how many last notes you have read, my experience and subsequent time spent learning about the subject tells me that this is a well structured note. Maybe an idea for you to find more examples from the era, you may find a useful comparison or two. Please don't get this wrong and I am not being intentionally rude but it is far better for you to do that than for me to show you.<br /><br />With regards to Tibor's native language, I am no expert in German but I understand he was a language teacher amongst other things so he would be quite proficient in the written and spoken word, at least you could reasonably assume that.<br /><br />Thanks for the comment, no problem if you want to use your usual 'internet' name, slightly more credibility than just using 'Anonymous' :) Have a great evening.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-83473198001517372242016-09-29T05:03:09.647+10:002016-09-29T05:03:09.647+10:00... I guess I'd try to figure out how statisti...... I guess I'd try to figure out how statistically unlikely a hit like "Danetta" is. I have no idea myself, BTW, so I'm not trying to entrap anyone here. My gut tells me it's just random because I know my head (and that of my fellow man) is a pattern-seeker with a double dose of confirmation bias. I see what I want to see. And so does everyone else.<br /><br />Take, for example, the overly structured note. Is it really? OK, so we'd expect a looser style these days, but here we are dealing with a different era... one of greater diffidence and probably greater stigma around suicide. You might expect a well constructed note on that basis. Add to this that Tibor is likely not writing in his native language. His note perhaps betrays the excessive care that comes from the foreigner's attention to the mechanics of his target language.<br /><br />Just some thoughts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-43865169181072882682016-09-28T18:08:35.938+10:002016-09-28T18:08:35.938+10:00Where was George T when Tibor wrote it, do we know...Where was George T when Tibor wrote it, do we know?peterboweshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383208822885209896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-31284237070672332472016-09-28T13:55:10.187+10:002016-09-28T13:55:10.187+10:00I thought I would add a little more to this questi...I thought I would add a little more to this question. Why is the decoding meaningful? Well, what we have is a Jewish man who, it would appear, has decided to end his life. He wrote a well structured almost overly structured farewell letter and one which when passed through an acrostic decoder delivers a Hebrew word, a girls name, from the first paragraph. Of itself that is unusual, made even more so when you learn that the meaning of the words id 'God is my Judge'.<br /><br />I would suggest that the chances of this output being a pure coincidence are extremely slim to non-existent. Given that is correct, what we now have is a man who has constructed the first paragraph in such a way that it produces an acrostic output, a coded output. The Hebrew Bible makes much use of the acrostic approach in it's verses. Tibor's words then, may be the result of his learning this approach as part of his religious upbringing.<br /><br />As an investigator/researcher and with this knowledge, what would you now do with the contents of the letter and/or the acrostic output?Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-72511638156976694442016-09-27T18:46:56.782+10:002016-09-27T18:46:56.782+10:00I can only say what it is that has been found. In ...I can only say what it is that has been found. In this case a decoder was used and the word 'Danetta' cropped up immediately. Danetta is either coincidental or it has some meaning, odd don't you think, that it should appear in a last note? Perhaps you see things differently and that is your right of course. What you could do is to go back to the decoder and see what else is turned out, perhaps amongst the jumble of random words lies more information?Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-19704881594889376022016-09-27T18:25:12.224+10:002016-09-27T18:25:12.224+10:00Could you explain in what way the decodings are (o...Could you explain in what way the decodings are (or might be) meaningful? They just seem to be random words to me. Also, why is "Danetta" significant (and not coincidental)? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-45292128769815491282016-09-27T04:44:33.095+10:002016-09-27T04:44:33.095+10:00There will be another post on Tibor in the next fe...There will be another post on Tibor in the next few days, it is hard for anyone to know just when he wrote his notes, he certainly gave the main one a lot of thought and it would have taken some time. The style of cursive writing was quite common in those days due to penmanship lessons that were once given in schools but , sadly, that is no longer the case. Thanks for your comment, I hope you get something from the next post on Tibor.Gordon332https://www.blogger.com/profile/17690592260936410432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2649149095048346117.post-9561926816923306282016-09-26T20:50:24.420+10:002016-09-26T20:50:24.420+10:00Excellent.. Trying to decode the transcript with a...Excellent.. Trying to decode the transcript with acrostic approach was an amazing work.. But the question on earlier post about this TK's note is still remain unanswered.. To me at least.. Like was the note really written by TK hours before his death? Once again the writings were extremely neat, and somehow looks alike with Jestyn's Verse 70. Or maybe you have already figured this out. Im waiting for the next post about this tk. Arnonrenoarnonnoreply@blogger.com